It was in the spring flash kind of early summer and my wife looked at you look at the size of an adult bear and we were up in arms. So Pat you field a lot of calls about people seeing or reportedly seeing mountain lions. Is this kind of a typical story. And they asked me about the tail which I just did not remember that tail out of that whole experience. I mean it wasn't your idea. So when we talk about the threshold of evidence required to say for sure you have seen a mountain lion it is rather high. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. So what a neat experience. Have it reported down in the Keene area. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. And those are not the same things. Or years or so. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis.
Rick van de Poll: Rick van de Poll so I was a non-believer as well. Patrick Tate: I would say well when social media first started they picked up the hoaxes became much more prevalent in the last four or five years hoaxes have died down completely. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. I tracked cats and all the western states. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. Infinite Scroll Enabled. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. It doesn't happen as much anymore. Patrick Tate: Yeah yeah. Mountain Lion | Squam Lakes Natural Science Center All exhibit and hiking trails are CLOSED for the season. Known to exist in the state for over well over a hundred years. Phone number 1 800. And to anyone listening I would just say you know fishing game who wants proof right. Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. The number 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 so promised a discussion about conspiracy theories. Yeah I did. Hunting is legal, but closely regulated by the state. John is calling from Bennington. If you believe you have seen a mountain lion and want to report it to NH Fish and Game, please contact the Wildlife Division at (603) 271-2461 or wildlife@wildlife.nh.gov to request an observation report form. John you're on the air. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. WMUR NH Chronicle Mountain Lions in NH Part I and Part II. Sam Evans-Brown: What he would have stopped as well I think is way way that the reason that mountain lion kept moving is because he wasn't finding anybody. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Peter Biello: Nice to be here. Caller: Oh hi. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. About two years ago I was at the Laconia airport on the way home from the airport and there's a big lake on one side called Lily Pond. GAP MOUNTAIN LIONS CLUB Fitzwilliam, New Hampshire (USA) District 44-N . Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. And boy it was big it had to be at least 200 pounds the thing was you and and it just made a little bit of noise and it was gone. There's no logic for why they'd be listed as an endangered species. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. So what those ranges. People have asked me about the genetics of eastern mountain lion. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Gotcha, so the Deep State is suppressing mountain lion news in order to prop up New Hampshire tourism? Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. The females disperse a shorter range and once they find a vacant home range they stay in that location and live there. Thank you. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. Are there Mountain Lions in NH? Fear for others and those two polarizing opinions on the situation is what I believe brings out mystique and Sam you know I take kind of a long view on this. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. Almost all species disperse greater distances than females. They kill big animals. So we tossed these terms around but really the term subspecies has been sort of redefined in our lifetimes. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction 3,207 views Jul 31, 2019 78 Dislike Share Save New Hampshire Fish and Wildlife 634 subscribers During my thirty-one career at the New. All they think it traveled north through Canada up you know crossed across the Great Lakes and then and then down again through New York State. I think that you probably are. Sam Evans-Brown: Well first I want to sort of explain why what the theory is but then also throw a bit of cold water on it because I don't think there's much much logic behind it but essentially is that if fish and game were to acknowledge that there was a population of Mount lions in the state there's a chance that something like a listing under the federal Endangered Species Act might happen and then there'd be you know some they'd have to put a plan in place to protect the species there'd be you know restrictions put on development. And you know all that. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. But you've done some reporting on this. I have one that's more elaborate than that. I mean there was this one lady I remember and tough tomorrow. That's pretty elaborate. So give us a call now. Had great trees behind it beautiful ferns on the ground so it brought me down on the site and the ferns on the ground matched. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. Its distinctive featurethe one that sets it apart from other North American wild catsis its tail, which is thick and often as long as its body. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. What kind of animal is that. The panther, Fells concolor, is a beast of many names, most frequently referred to in New Hampshire history as catamount, but sometimes known locally as "Indian Devil" or "Carcajou", under which . Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. And it was you know 10 or 12 people saw it all at once. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. OK. Rick van de Poll: Rick and I would add that if a mountain lion male takes up residence and successfully finds a female as pets there's gonna be a lot more evidence there will be like deer carcasses up in trees and territorial marking and claw marks and tracks and it you know dispersal is gonna be very tough to see or observed but residential parrots a totally different story. Its actually fairly reasonable to believe that mountain lions do, at least, pass through occasionally. So you want identifiable backgrounds. What do you think that. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Thanks for taking my call. Peter Biello: Worth mentioning if we're scaring anybody question a mysterious mountain lions lurking perhaps in someone's backyard. Tim Yeah. Less than a year later I found a scat on the swamp range and I was working at the time with a fellow at the Michigan wildlife habitat Federation. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. They lived perhaps elsewhere in New England and they were just passing through and happened to have an encounter of some sort. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. There have been several sightings of mountain lions in New Hampshire recently. So I learned about what Rick just reported through a heart of heart of New Hampshire a letter and. If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. It's bigger but bigger and better world. Peter Biello: Yeah. The unheralded hero of Apollo John Hubble the man who knew the way to the moon. Peter Biello: Hmm. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. 19 Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. Well thanks for sharing. It's you know I recognized their report and. Peter Biello: Listeners give us a call if you have a question or a story of a sighting 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. So hey, just me shooting from the hip, maybe there are a couple mountain lions skulking about. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. Right. Well within there. Thanks for your call. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. Yes. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. So nowadays we think of this in the Northeast as crazy stuff that people have a mountain lion as a pet. Patrick Tate: Yes. Patrick Tate: While a juvenile not a juvenile I guess if you want nodes to the base of the tail for juvenile that wouldn't be small at all. For all the men out there that don't realize it. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. They're the generalists that made it through both the arrival of the Clovis people with their with their spears and then the Europeans with their guns. As recently as 2011 there was one young male mountain lion that cruised all the way from the black hills of South Dakota, up over the Great Lakes, down through New Yorkgetting spotted all along the waykilled a beaver near the Quabbin Reservoir in Central Massachusetts, left behind prints and DNA at that site, and then was hit by a car in Connecticut. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. So one thing I'll add. When you talk about a bobcat Bobcat maybe 80 90 pounds and then a mountain lion could be between 130 and 180 pounds. They are the same thing. And as the biologist who's gonna stand on this and if I'm going to say this is a proven picture I need to be able to stand on it so soundly and have the evidence so I going to go through it with a fine tooth comb kept picking pieces apart trying to answer these pieces. So so. Peter Biello: Well hey Rob. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. So. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. By Eric Orff. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. (Cue the X-Files music: The Government is denying the cougars exist!) This decision was primarily for nerdy phylogeny reasons, though, because the eastern cougar probably never existed. So there is definitely no downward pressure by anyone. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Peter Biello: So Rick seems like you agree that the tail is a big giveaway whether or not it's a mountain lion Absolutely. Can you look into this picture. The way that we define species has undergone a revolution with the advent of DNA testing. List of Mountains in New Hampshire is a general list of mountains in New Hampshire, with elevation.This list includes many mountains in the White Mountains range that covers about a quarter of the state, as well as mountains outside of that range.. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. John if you're still on the line here I was going to I don't. We'll also hear your stories if you have them again. She is renowned for tracking. You know one of the the biggest questions I have about that is it points to how much we don't know and if in fact we don't know enough. Yes. They just end up in these places. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Theres a project called the Cougar Network that tracks verified sightings, and they are all around us: Massachusetts, Connecticut, Maine, New York and New Brunswick have all had verified sightings over the past 20 years or so. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. How far were you from this cat. Peter Biello: The number is 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Despite numerous reports, the NH Fish and Game Department continues to have no physical evidence of mountain lion presence in the state. Something along those lines. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. Rick van de Poll: Yes. We had six copies printed out each. If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Every other Friday on Morning Edition NHPRs Sam Evans-Brown tracks down answers to questions about the environment and outdoors for our listeners in a segment we call Ask Sam.. Peter Biello: Ok weird question but do they make good pets. Thanks for calling. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. Do cougars live in New England? And why would they what. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Current conditions in New Hampshire would support a mountain lion, according to Tate, as forests have returned, allowing for prey species to become more prevalent. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. By, March 2023 Fund Drive Rules and Regulations, Persons with disabilities who need assistance accessing NHPR's FCC public files, please contact us at publicfile@nhpr.org. They absolutely do. Someone's got to see one they're very secretive. So take care of this problem. m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. And they used to be this whole list of the different subspecies of mountain lion and it has since been reduced to just to the North American and the South American. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . So let's let's go to the phones. Rick van de Poll: Rick your thoughts. You know perhaps poke around where you saw it and see if you can find a track. Peter Biello: We got an e-mail question from Robert in Epsom who asks are sightings or encounters with these big cats less dangerous here where they're passing through than out west where those same mountain lines might be establishing territory Rick. Tell us your story. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. They're just moving around freely. Chapter X, Predators, Panther (Mountain Lion) From History of NH Game and Furbearers by Helenette Silver, Research Clerk, NH Fish and Game Dept. So they're scary. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. And in fact in 2011 when it was announced that the eastern cougar was officially extinct the reason that announcement was made is because they said really that it never existed. And I think a lot of folks would like them to be around. The report came in from a conservation officer. Seems reasonable! So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Caller: Absolutely. Thank you very much for listening. Well let's talk a little bit about that. It's listed as population of least concern.